The latest episode of Rory Sutherland and ALF Insight’s On Brand podcast sees Oatly Chief Creative Officer John Schoolcraft and Loanhood co-founder Jen Charon dig into how challenger brands influence and encourage behaviour change.

Schoolcraft explains why one of his first moves after joining Swedish oat milk firm Oatly was to replace the marketing department with a “department of mind control”. 

Throughout his career, Schoolcraft believes traditional marketing structures had undermined his best creative ideas.

He highlights the client-agency relationship as one that is largely based on selling ideas that fit the mold, rather than one built on trust and driving creativity. 

Meanwhile, Charon, who co-founded environmentally friendly clothes sharing platform Loanhood explains the importance for challenger brands to spot pre-existing trends and the rise of the sharing economy.